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Requiem
2 hours ago, blissopifree 2 said:

When I transferred from m/done to subz I wasn't too bad,but after 2 yrs of subz when I tried to jump off them l felt terrible I was depressed didn't want to talk to anyone and my head was so far up my ass?!

Peace 

Bliss.....

Same. It was 6 months of pure exhaustion for me until I couldn't take it anymore.

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Jam1976
7 hours ago, Requiem said:

Same. It was 6 months of pure exhaustion for me until I couldn't take it anymore.

I'm coming off of Suboxone now. I started on H 20 years ago, got myself off the H and onto a methadone maintenance program.... I was on that program for a very very long time and then was told to go onto Suboxone because it would be easier to detox from.  When I went on to methadone I was not ready to get  completely honest and/or get completely sober, but methadone at least got me off of the streets and started me in a direction of having a MUCH more normal life.  Switching over to Suboxone was a mistake, I see that now. The sub doctor I was referred to was a chronic over prescriber at the time. I was put on way too high of a dose and didn't know any better.  He started me at 24 mg of Suboxone!  I had cut myself down to 30 mg of methadone  before transitioning to Suboxone.  Now I have a doc who is serious about detoxing me off of Suboxone, it's been a little bit of a shock to my system because for two years I was given so much Suboxone that I didn't take a consistent dose on a daily basis.  I am now down to being prescribed 8 mg, but I am taking about 6 mg. I go back-and-forth, sometimes (1/3-1/2 of the time) I only take 4 mg.  Yesterday I took 4 mgs, I feel fine today and I've only had 2 mgs so far.  I'm not sleeping great, but I can live through that. I'm going to try to stay at this 4mg dose.  I've done 12 step off and on for 20 years, unfortunately right now I live in a very very small town with one meeting once a week in the evening when I'm supposed to be taking care of my disabled son. I still go at times, but there are only eight people in the meeting and the meeting is very odd ( super religious, everyone there preaches about Jesus and that being the only true higher power) and I don't find it to be helpful  most of the time. I try to take the good and leave that bad… But sometimes the meetings are so weird that they are hard to sit through.  I loved my 12 step home group when I lived in the city.  I was the secretary for the meeting for two years and felt the best that I ever did in terms of my addiction.  I never talked  openly in the meetings about being on methadone, but most of the people in my meeting were non-judgemental anyway… I probably could have. So I got myself an addiction counselor  here recently , that has helped.  The main side effect I have noticed  sense tapering off of Suboxone is an increase in my anxiety, and I already have an anxiety disorder. So while I've been rather successful in decreasing my Suboxone dose, I have not been successful in decreasing my benzodiazepine use.  Just the opposite in fact.  It is definitely a battle. But it's a battle that I am determined to win. I have been on one form of opioid or another for so long that it is insane.  I try to imagine life free of any prescribed medication, it's hard to even wrap my brain around it because I  have been on these  medications for so long.  I keep hearing about how the last 2 mg are the hardest when it comes to detoxing from Suboxone, I'm sure if I had gotten off sooner it would have been a far easier.  I think one of my biggest worries is that I've been on these medications for so long that once I am off all of my old cravings will come back again… I have never had any craving to do H again, at least not for a good 15 to 17 years.  But I worry that I am already having a hard time controlling my urge for anxiety medications and that it will get out of control and once I'm off of the Suboxone. Other than being on these medications I live a very healthy lifestyle.  I work out at least four days a week, I eat a very strict healthy diet… I meditate, do yoga. I try to do activities that help with my anxiety.  They do help, but I am definitely an addict and benzos have definitely become my problem drug.  I have no idea what to expect once I hit the 2 mg Suboxone dose and once I start lowering from there… I guess time will tell.  I will be in the city for a month over the summer and plan on attending a lot of meetings with some of my sober friends while I am there. 

 If anyone has any advice in terms of getting off these last 2/4/6 mg of Suboxone, I would greatly appreciate it.  I know my doctor will help me, but I also know it's going to take a lot of inner strength and me reaching out for as much help as I can get. 

 I do see a light at the end of the tunnel… A final freedom from the handcuffs of being on these medications. And in terms of the benzo use, I'm taking this one step at a time. I will get off of the Suboxone and then I will start addressing my issue with my anxiety medication addiction. While I have a valid anxiety/panic attack disorder, I know that I exaggerated it in my mind as an excuse to take as much as possible. I will get off of the Suboxone and then I will start addressing my issue with my anxiety medication addiction. While I have a valid anxiety/panic attack disorder, I know that I  have a serious problem with this form of medication.   Addiction is not a joke.  When it comes to getting truly clean, the more eggs you having in your recovery basket the better your odds of success.   I am just going to keep the faith that I can make it and get as much help as I possibly can. Thank you for the topic! 

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Requiem

SL do 0.2 buprenorphine and that's perfect for tapering. I've started 3mg a day for my 12 year rx addiction. I'm only taking 10-14 days worth of subs to get me past withdrawals. Have u tried Paxil? Or paroxitine as we call it here in uk? Very good for anxiety and easy to get off in my opinion only. Sounds like u r working hard on recovery. Well done. Don't be too hard on yourself. I'm desperate to be without opiates as I'd like another child and I'd like to be normal again. One step at a time but don't forget subs stay in your system for 3-4 days so when u alternate between high n low dose it will catch up with u eventually. Go slow. Reduce by 25% a week I would say. 

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Requiem

Also, re cravings, after being on subs for a while, u genuinely stop craving your doc when you come off it. It really does re-wire your brain. I was on subutex 9 months and at the end and after coming off I didn't crave my doc for the first time n my life. If u get withdrawals or paws or rls... that will make u want to take a small amount of your doc to cure it but u won't want to take it to get high or have fun with it. I started by taking 8mg of codeine for rls at night which worked! But then over a course of a year 1x8mg codeine crept upwards. 

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Heavenlee

I crave all the time but I had a short time being a h addict. About 5 years I had horrible veins to start but when treated for multiple misses with thrombosis and cellulitis then endocarditis changed my life. Many know I have a pigs valve because of the damage it did to my heart and lining. They slowly detoxed me while I was in the hospital for my almost 2 month stay then took me to a hospital where I was given naltrexone and I felt like I was going to freaking die. I said F this got on methadone and did a great job working and raising my child until I had my son taken from my ex because I was abusing Xanax and methadone. I didn't care about the 11 deaths in one year at East Indiana Methadone Clinic. All those private clinics care about is getting you as high as possible. It broke my heart seeing single mothers in there not eating prostituting themselves to pay $14.00 a day to get dosed. I only got from 200 mgs of methadone to 60 mgs when I did three to four day wait because I was on so much. The police were called twice to my house I must not like withdrawing too much. It took me a month to feel normal and I hated that subs and Xanax for me do not have that synerthestic effect that methadone and Xanax had. It's taken me 11 years to get off it but I need to go to must admit because when I have a headache it's like my husband are playing with fire we are planning the next relapse. I still see my doctor and we both get three strips a day!! Why to help people who are sick. We don't sellliterally the boxes we have but will help our insurance covers 3 a day which I hear is hard but my doctor personally called. I use others pee god I should be at the must admit because I'm having surgery Friday had gas pains and a headache from hell and I took way more than I needed for pain. I struggle with addiction every day but I work my ass off to fight the urges. AA I know has helped others all it's ever done for me is meet great connections as soon as they relapse so I avoid and have my own spiritual method. I'm up at 7:00 every morning to watch the sunrise and pray to my God because I'm sure it's a hell of a lot different than many and I pray for this entire board and the friends I made. Our best way was cutting off little 2mg and 1 mg pieces you couldn't see and only taking when needed eventually a day would pass then two etc but I must admit four months I'm still shaky. Good luck to all I have a ton on respect for anyone coming off any narcotic. It doesn't matter what kind. Pain is pain and I never say oh it's just vikes I was on methadone because we all feel pain the same. So I have respect for all opiate addicts or what you use if you're trying to clean up. But be prepared for many setbacks but as @PTFC said tomorrow's a new day! Get back on that wagon and I do! Good luck to all and I respect you all no matter what your drug of choice is!

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blissopifree 2
On 2017-5-28 at 5:28 PM, Requiem said:

Same. It was 6 months of pure exhaustion for me until I couldn't take it anymore.

@RequiemYou sound just like I felt AWFUL and for the first time I felt REALLY depressed.I just didn't want to talk to anyone and to be left alone.

Peace 

Bliss....

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Requiem
On 31/05/2017 at 9:31 AM, blissopifree 2 said:

@RequiemYou sound just like I felt AWFUL and for the first time I felt REALLY depressed.I just didn't want to talk to anyone and to be left alone.

Peace 

Bliss....

The stuff is so strong and although it stops cravings, it really does fatigue you in a way you can't imagine unless you've been there already. 

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Jam1976

 That is exactly what I am fearing right now, as I get lower and lower I am concerned about how it's going to impact my ability to work, work out, take care of my kids, etc. once I get down to a an end low-dose and I'm off completely. .  I am working really hard to get myself down to a stable 4 mgs...that hasn't been so bad.  But getting off at the end and then how I feel afterwards, that's a huge unknown to me and I am definitely nervous about it.  My brain is going to have to learn how to create dopamine on it's own again, I know that working out helps with that. But if you're exhausted and depressed, your desire to work out probably plummets completely.  I looked at a calendar and it hasn't been 2 1/2 years on Suboxone, it's been more like three for me.  And many many years on methadone prior to that.   I've had a couple of people tell me that I've been on these medications for so long that getting off is unrealistic. But honestly, the side effects from this medication get worse and worse as time goes on.   I really want off. Do people ever stop and medicate their withdrawal symptoms using Oxy for a week or so?  That's how my old (VERY liberal in terms of prescribing medications) doctor transitioned me from methadone to Suboxone, so I was wondering if the same thing would work in terms of the symptoms after detoxing off of subs. The doctor that I have now is much more restrictive and uptight compared to my old doctor. But honestly, with how much my old doctor over prescribed it made it very difficult to get off of the medication. 

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Gemini72

The way the Dr described it to me,(I don't trust Dr's), but anyway he did show me research and was in on the know, a sub specialist if you will.. Heroin and methadone go in and block all your receptors so when you stop your brain has forgotten how to make those chemicals because it hasn't had to. Well subs come in and just block half your receptors so your brain continues to make the chemicals.. I know subs don't give you the euphoria that other opiates do so I kinda figured everyone makes a big deal about the kick because they don't want to get on subs and not be on their opiate haze all day.. Don't get me wrong, I've been on subs for four years and I'm terrified too but I do have some hope, my Dr is a stand up guy and I mostly trust him. I just think people don't want to stop what they are doing so they make it sound like it's the worst kick ever so it gives them an excuse to keep doing what they are doing. Had a lot of gnarly kicks I know the fear ALL TOO WELL. But I'm just a girl with and little opinion. What i do know my life has been 10 fold better since I stopped heroin and methadone, I'm emotionally available for my kids and the people I love, I don't sleep all day(which sometimes I miss) and I respect myself a Hell of a lot more. I'll be sending you good thoughts and easy kick wishes, maybe then you tell me what to expect. Gem

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Requiem
On 28/05/2017 at 5:28 PM, Requiem said:

Same. It was 6 months of pure exhaustion for me until I couldn't take it anymore.

Same

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Requiem
On 02/06/2017 at 8:46 PM, Gemini72 said:

The way the Dr described it to me,(I don't trust Dr's), but anyway he did show me research and was in on the know, a sub specialist if you will.. Heroin and methadone go in and block all your receptors so when you stop your brain has forgotten how to make those chemicals because it hasn't had to. Well subs come in and just block half your receptors so your brain continues to make the chemicals.. I know subs don't give you the euphoria that other opiates do so I kinda figured everyone makes a big deal about the kick because they don't want to get on subs and not be on their opiate haze all day.. Don't get me wrong, I've been on subs for four years and I'm terrified too but I do have some hope, my Dr is a stand up guy and I mostly trust him. I just think people don't want to stop what they are doing so they make it sound like it's the worst kick ever so it gives them an excuse to keep doing what they are doing. Had a lot of gnarly kicks I know the fear ALL TOO WELL. But I'm just a girl with and little opinion. What i do know my life has been 10 fold better since I stopped heroin and methadone, I'm emotionally available for my kids and the people I love, I don't sleep all day(which sometimes I miss) and I respect myself a Hell of a lot more. I'll be sending you good thoughts and easy kick wishes, maybe then you tell me what to expect. Gem

Subutex is great for mental withdrawals as after you've been on it a few months your addicted brain rewires but the physical is unbelievable, far worse than any prescribed opiate medication. 

10 day tapers to get you off your doc can be worthwhile though.

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Dr-Octagon

2.5 years ago i was coming off a "d" habit, not the worst but bad enough imo. I went to a sub doctor. He only accepted cash. "Gee, sounds familiar" i told him i didn't want to be over-precribed or on more than a few months. He was fine with that.  I had an appt every month $300 i think plus med cost was like 200-250.  Time went by and he didnt keep up our ageeement about reduction or time frame so i began reducing it on my own.  I was down to i believe one strip in thirds a day. He had started me on 3.  I got jaundice real bad. My liver enzymes were 3800+.  I cut myself down to a 3rd a day, changed my diet, began silymarin and n.a.c.  Dropped the subs totally after a week.  Had rls, sweats, cronic fatigue. I assumed the fatigue was liver but who knows?  Anyway my liver improved over the course of 6 months. My primary and liver doc were astonished. I had come in contact with hep-b at some point but in the end had no antigen present, only antibodies.  Idk if the subs were part of it or not. Doesn't really matter anyway. Im extra diligent about any opiate intake. My l-4 and l-5 had been herniated so long you could see the vertabrae growing around the bulges in the discs.  I went to a chiro, learned the physical therapy and for the most part am out of the major pain without surgery. I count my blessings in many ways today. Probably sheds some light on some of my posts.

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Dobie

I have never had a huge opiate habit but once in while I get carried away.  You know how that goes.  Anyway I use Val and kratom to get back to normal.  The first day I will use 50 mg val.  This might sound like a lot but it is the only way to get to sleep and it has never bothered me.  2nd day 40mg and so on down to to 0.  The whole time I will be taking Kratom.  

The val helps with restless legs, anxiety etc.  The Kratom helps with nausea,  Diarrhea etc.  The two together work well for me..

 

Dobie

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Conceited

If your serious about complete abstinence, then subs are the way to go. There easier to cut down when when getting to the last few ml's. I would recommend mdone because the last 10 ml is a bitch to deal with. Either use mdone then switch to subs when your at about 20ml of mdone. 

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