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Does lack of sleep cause Diabetes or does Diabetes cause lack of sleep?


Kurt Codean
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2 hours ago, rootshealer said:

Look up sarcopenic obesity (aka TOFI - I like how it reminds of toffee). Not even the slender reliably escape the ills of saturated and trans-fats - and just excess fats in general.

Look up pre-colonial indigenous diet. The hunter-gatherer is really an unfortunate name. Considering the logistics of hunting in the ancient environment, it was by far gathering than hunting. Our massive intake of animal products is very much a modern phenomenon, and we're all worse for it. Now it's a stick of broccoli to a steak, instead of a few slivers of steak to flavor a smorgasbord of plant delights.

Look up Nimai Delgado. Animals get protein from plants. Elephants, gorillas, rhinos, giraffes, horses, even buffalo - no one needs animals to get big. But there's definitely a link between the 2 - all those naturally occuring hormones (not injected) are known to have activity in us as well. Girls menstruate earlier; boys and girls mature faster; and the world gets fatter - outside and in.

Well, the statement "nobody needs animals to get big," is incorrect. As I've said, I never had significant gains until I started eating meat with every meal, and eating at least 1/2 pound of meat (approx. 1/4 kilo) with a meal every time I work out. Our massive intake of meat is not solely a modern, nor a European phenomenon. The native americans would go on great hunts where they would kill a buffalo (or multiple) and bring the meat back to their tribe. I also had a Lakota on the west coast give me smoked salmon, prepared in the way the natives do it--it was the most delicious fish I've ever had in my life. The native Americans had their fill of fruits and vegetables, yes, but they also had their fill of meat. The difference between elephants and humans is that elephants are not omnivores. We became omnivores as a species during the ice age when plant life was very hard to find. If you do not require meat to reach your fullest potential, it's easiest just to say that you and I have evolved differently. That's why I'm not trying to apply my own diet to your life--I know that we both have different needs. It's a matter of course.

The last thing you said makes a lot of sense to me. Must be why my gains started coming after I changed my diet. Maybe it's those hormones my body needs, and not the animal proteins--or perhaps my body needs both in conjunction. All I know is that after 27 years of life, I've finally found the perfect diet for myself! All there is now is to learn new dishes that I can make from the staples I love.

 

By the way, did you know that trans-fats are now illegal in the USA? No man or company is allowed to sell any food product that contains trans-fats. Many snack companies had to change their recipes to remove it!

Anyway, we might disagree on a lot, but I respect your views and the way you present them. Just to put that out there. :) It is very important to remain friendly and not let our forum become Facebook, you know? <3

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rootshealer

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7 hours ago, Snooky said:

Well, the statement "nobody needs animals to get big," is incorrect. As I've said, I never had significant gains until I started eating meat with every meal, and eating at least 1/2 pound of meat (approx. 1/4 kilo) with a meal every time I work out. Our massive intake of meat is not solely a modern, nor a European phenomenon. The native americans would go on great hunts where they would kill a buffalo (or multiple) and bring the meat back to their tribe. I also had a Lakota on the west coast give me smoked salmon, prepared in the way the natives do it--it was the most delicious fish I've ever had in my life. The native Americans had their fill of fruits and vegetables, yes, but they also had their fill of meat. The difference between elephants and humans is that elephants are not omnivores. We became omnivores as a species during the ice age when plant life was very hard to find. If you do not require meat to reach your fullest potential, it's easiest just to say that you and I have evolved differently. That's why I'm not trying to apply my own diet to your life--I know that we both have different needs. It's a matter of course.

The last thing you said makes a lot of sense to me. Must be why my gains started coming after I changed my diet. Maybe it's those hormones my body needs, and not the animal proteins--or perhaps my body needs both in conjunction. All I know is that after 27 years of life, I've finally found the perfect diet for myself! All there is now is to learn new dishes that I can make from the staples I love.

 

By the way, did you know that trans-fats are now illegal in the USA? No man or company is allowed to sell any food product that contains trans-fats. Many snack companies had to change their recipes to remove it!

Anyway, we might disagree on a lot, but I respect your views and the way you present them. Just to put that out there. :) It is very important to remain friendly and not let our forum become Facebook, you know? <3

Disagreement isn't bad. Makes me think about my position from different angles, some I might not have otherwise considered. And to me, right or wrong, one has to respect an inquiring mind.

Well, when you say Ice Age, remember that much, if not most, of humanity was not braving the cold that was more so in the Northern Hemisphere. And so even now when you go to rural and indigenous populations today, it's by far a plant-based diet.

Don't get me wrong - not vegan, but plant based. That said, if one had to put a number on it, it's quite interesting to note that our closest evolutionary relatives (chimpanzees and bonobos) are estimated to have a diet that's about 94% plants (the remaining 6% is mostly insects and then occasionally monkey meat). One study conducted on Okinawa Japanese still consuming a traditional diet resulted in about 90% plant based - and this appears pretty consistent.

Evolution is pretty consistent. Even across species after deviation. It's also slow for higher-order species - we have few young and they mature slowly, and the genome is highly resistant to change/error. We may have different mass, height, complexion, etc., but we evolved with a particular diet to which we are best adapted, even while being flexible.

Cross-species comparative studies clearly indicate that that diet for humans is without doubt a high-fiber diet, especially well suited for fruit intake (frugivore). From our teeth to our gut to even our physical make-up.

Yes, our big brains discovered ways to conquer and then make just about anything more palatable and digestible (mind you, we did the same for plants, not just animals), but our evolution didn't start with us - it goes back millions of years to species that gave rise to us and certainly had a diet centered about plants.

ironically, that big brain is likely a result of foraging, or at least was helped along quite well by it. Think about primates vs. your favorite land-based predators. As it turns out, it takes a far bigger brain to remember many different plants, where you last saw them, when they ripen, and so on than it takes to ambush and kill animals. (I say land animals because the marine world appears to be an exception to this rule - e.g., dolphins, killer whales, etc.)

Trans-fats were indeed banned. Prior to this ban, the largest source was by humans - hydrogenated oils (us discovering how to harden oils into butter). Guess what the largest source now reverts back to! Yup, animals are a natural source of trans-fats and prior to human ingenuity, the only. Btw, the ban isn't absolute. It's a threshold of less than 0.5g per serving. So most of your favorite non-dairy butter snacks and non-dairy butters will still contain them, but companies just get to advertise 0g trans-fats if they meet that threshold.

The issue with hormones, though, is that they do many, many things, and they follow a program as well as influence the program of much of our physiology. Kids do a lot of growing and developing, then mature to reproductive capacity. Adults mostly maintain, so only grow in 2 ways - sideways or cancer. (Muscle growth is mostly just sweling.) So having an extraneous source is not a good thing - and indeed, hence the link to precocious development in boys and girls, obesity, disease (ovarian dysfunction, uterine fibroids, thyroid disorders, cancer, etc.).

Seriously, though, check out Nimai Delgado. He and others are showing that bodybuilding doesn't need to be the cardiovascular disease-inducing shitshow it's been so far. And why would it? Elephants, gorillas, rhinos, ruminants, etc.

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Without quoting your entire post this time, I'd just like to respond to a few points.

"Well, when you say Ice Age, remember that much, if not most, of humanity was not braving the cold that was more so in the Northern Hemisphere. And so even now when you go to rural and indigenous populations today, it's by far a plant-based diet."

I live in North America and descend from the North American indigenous people. They eat a lot of meat, and they're really good at cooking it. As far back as you can look into their history, they eat meat.

"Evolution is pretty consistent. Even across species after deviation. It's also slow for higher-order species - we have few young and they mature slowly, and the genome is highly resistant to change/error. We may have different mass, height, complexion, etc., but we evolved with a particular diet to which we are best adapted, even while being flexible."

Sorry, bro, but mostly false. As I've already said, I require a meat-based diet to reach my fullest potential. For some reason, however, I seem to attract women who eat mostly plants. One of the women I've been with described to me how she had trouble digesting meats and couldn't eat too much. I am the opposite. I have no trouble eating or digesting meat. It makes me feel whole instead of making me feel troubled. That's a pretty big deviation. It was from this relationship I learned that people could have drastically different body types and require different nutrients. Her bloodline descended from Hawaii--probably why she wasn't a big meat eater. I imagine there were not many buffalo roaming the Hawaiian islands. Probably the most common and available meat would have been fish, with not much else to choose from. Since her bloodline was eating plants and fish while mine was eating buffalo, it makes perfect sense that our bloodlines evolved differently.
Our genome is designed for change, not only based on what works, but also based on error. There is a tribe in Africa which has an extra joint in their knee (or perhaps it was their foot), and they are able to jump 6 feet into the air. People who live in Europe are often able to bend their legs and feet into yoga poses that Americans are unable to perform, because American children don't usually bend their feet in that way. Black people have a completely different muscular structure than white people. Across the human race, there are innumerable branches of human evolution, all occurring in different ways. Just like how there are venomous snakes and non-venomous garden snakes.

"Muscle growth is mostly just sweling"

You should totally start working out, bro. If you think muscle growth is just swelling, wait until you actually start getting gains. Working out improves your mood, coordination, and gives you an outlet for pent up anger and unreleased sexual energy. People who work out often are more connected and aware of the things happening around them, as well as in greater control of their mood than people who don't. Except for steroid users who are typically on-edge. Good thing I don't use steroids!
Before I started working out, I was a bit of a klutz, constantly dropping things on the floor, etc. Now if I ever drop something, I seem to always catch it before it even travels a foot from my hand! This comes from working out, my friend.

The animals you mentioned at the end of your post, btw, have tremendous muscles because of the constant physical demands they put on themselves while living in the wild. I mean, gorillas? If you were swinging from tree to tree and lifting your entire body weight all day, you'd be ripped too! That's why I do pull-ups. Rhinos have to use the whole force of their body to impale somebody with their horn. They aren't just born with big muscles, bro. They have physiologies that have not evolved to require meat, because their ancestors never really ate it. My ancestors ate predominantly meat for generations. In any case, my case or theirs, it is the physical demand which caused our muscles to grow. A muscular person has a baby and that baby is more likely to develop muscles more easily. That's evolution. A man eats meat all his life, and it teaches his body to break down and use the proteins in the meat incredibly efficiently. This is also evolution

 

One place I agree with you is that if you don't eat plants and fruits, you will be a very dehydrated, hungry, angry man. Whatever anyone's body type is, they should always make sure to eat whatever it is their body needs, and to exclude whatever causes them harm. For me, I had to learn to eat more meat, drink more water, and do less drugs. And I thank God for all the progress I've made! There are plenty of meat-eaters who have the body type that requires meat. If you find one that doesn't eat enough fruit or veggies, you'll be putting your advice in just the right place. :)

And now, without further ado, I'd like to share my favorite character from Dragon Ball:


Dude is so ridiculously huge and cut lol. Must be all that buffalo meat!

Btw, if you notice, their spears are mostly for hunting. This is also true in real-life. In combat, the Natives would use tomahaks, bows, guns, clubs, and hatchets. The spear was still used in combat but not as often as these other weapons. Bows and of course guns were not invented by the native americans. Much like horses, they obtained these tools from another culture and mastered them.

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They might eat a lot of meat now, but not back then. In fact, their spiritual connection to the land and animals disputes that, as does anthropological study. Taking of life, animal or otherwise, isn't taken lightly (of course, with variation among the many different tribes - but none would have had the industrial scale production to even support such an undertaking). You might be substituting the present for the past. High animal product consumption just wasn't common, especially once sedentary (as opposed to nomadic) life took hold, with which came lots of farming.

As for evolution, that's just based on fact. I guess you can choose not to believe it, but you wouldn't get far trying to convince a geneticist that human genomes are "designed for change". I'm not even sure what that means. We have extensive repair and fail-safe mechanisms to ensure a stable genome. You may consult a genetics textbook for this - or Wikipedia.

What you're describing are subjective differences. Unless she has an allergy/intolerance to meat, her digestion of it is likely just fine, but she may not feel well digesting it. Animal products are harsh on the digestive system (not to mention kidneys), and some people are likely more sensitive to it than others.

I won't even comment on Hawaiians, Maasai, etc. Obesity in Pacific Islanders is a huge problem - without a doubt their massive uptake of animal products in their diet that deviates from their traditional diet.

By the way, Native Americans are in similar dire straits. Their health indices actually go counter against your assertions. If they were that used to animal products and uniquely and optimally adapted to it, like carnivores, they wouldn't be among the worst in the nation in health statistics (esp. metabolic syndrome markers - obesity, hypertension, high cholesterol, diabetes). Lions and other carnivores in the wild don't get cholesterol problems, with resultant heart attacks, strokes and so on.

Chimpanzees swing through trees. Gorillas are actually quite sedentary (doing quite a bit of lounging and digesting the pounds of foliage they consume daily). Orangutans aren't racing through trees either. Sure, they all move, but gyms are very much a human peculiarity.

Most animals do not concern themselves with exercising, and their activity level might actually be quite low, but eating the diet one is best adapted to just does not typically lead to obesity and other health problems, like diabetes, regardless of activity level.

Spears... I mean, what about agricultural tools? Spears also killed fellow humans. Does that mean cannibalism was common? Humans use tools. That's about all spears, and many other tools used by humans, can confidently conclude.

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